Scaling Through Specialization

Dr. Ran Stark

Why would you go to someone who's not an expert? At the end of the day, it's education, knowing that, you know, the surgeon you pick does good work, safe work, you know, and gets you home safely with your family. We want surgery to have, you know, in the community a good name, not to be scary, to be natural, and, you know, people can enjoy it.

Erica Crawford

I am here with Dr. Ran Stark of Philadelphia, long-time client, even better friend.

Dr. Ran Stark

Yes.

Erica Crawford

And we are really excited to be podcasting together.

Dr. Ran Stark

Always fun with you, Erica.

Erica Crawford

Always fun. Gosh, I have so many things I could ask you right now. Um, but I want to start off just right off the bat with something that a lot of my clients don't like, but it's just a fact, okay? So, with the way that social media is today, and with the way that AI is, right? There is a lot of talk about specializing in procedures.

As in, you want a rhinoplasty, you go to a rhinoplasty specialist. You want a facelift, you go to a facial plastic surgeon. If you want a breast or body work, you go to a breast and body plastic surgeon. A lot of people hate that term, breast and body plastic surgeon, cuz that doesn't exist. There's facial ENTs, and then there's plastic surgeons.

But whether we like it or not, in the realm of social media and in AI, for the record, ChatGPT, Grok, Gemini, Claude, we are in the world of specialization. Meaning, you type in something on ChatGPT of who are the best, you know, I did this the other day. I said, "Who are the best plastic surgeons in Miami?" cuz we're doing a test. And then it said, "What do you mean, plastic surgeons? There are people who specialize in breast and body work, and there's people who are good at face." And it separated out answers to me of facial plastics, and then people who are well-known for their breast and body work.

Dr. Ran Stark

So, why is AI being educated in that way?

Erica Crawford

I think that because there's enough on the internet that has pushed it that way. There's enough on social media that's pushed it that way, enough blogs, you know, and I have a lot of wonderful facial plastic surgeons that I work with.

Dr. Ran Stark

They're great. I think some of their work is probably one of the best facelifts in the world.

Erica Crawford

Absolutely.

Dr. Ran Stark

I just think, you know, a lot, you know, we need to educate people. What is a plastic surgeon and what is a facial plastic surgeon? I mean, we all come from totally different pedigrees. Uh, we're trained differently. You know, uh, plastic surgeons can be trained in general surgery or go straight to plastic surgery.

Erica Crawford

Correct.

Dr. Ran Stark

Uh, they come from oral maxillofacial surgery. I mean, we've, I even have colleagues that were ENT surgeons have come into plastic surgery. So, I think a little bit of education because I mean, still, I mean, our pedigrees, we're trained, I always tell patients, from the hair to the toe.

Erica Crawford

Yes.

Dr. Ran Stark

You know, and facial plastic surgeons are trained from the neck up. So, there's obviously a differentiator and I understand AI is going there, but it's maybe AI can also educate itself and understand what's the difference. But we can go back to specialization. So,

Erica Crawford

So, it's a tough thing because there's what's correct,

Dr. Ran Stark

Right.

Erica Crawford

and then there's what's marketed, right? And unfortunately, those things aren't the same, right? We've both seen, uh, well, I'm not going to name any specifics. We've both seen, let's just say, I'm sure somebody's going to pop in your head, somebody's going to pop in my head, a plastic surgeon who's really famous on social who we know doesn't do, who has terrible belly buttons, right?

Dr. Ran Stark

Right.

Erica Crawford

Bad tummy tucks, but they're huge on social, booked out for years. Like, these people do exist, right? And marketing is interesting that way. It's funny I'm talking about it cuz it's my own field, but there is a factor of it, which is there's how good is the plastic surgeon and there's how good is the plastic surgeon marketed, right? Um,

Dr. Ran Stark

So, it's all about marketing. It's not really about how good the plastic surgeon is.

Erica Crawford

Hate to say that. I think that they go hand in hand because at the end of the day, I do think that people make their final decision based on before and after photos.

Dr. Ran Stark

Right.

Erica Crawford

So, I would not say it's mutually exclusive because I think the decision comes at the point of a before and after photo. So, we don't

Dr. Ran Stark

It's interesting because it's way easier to put breast and body photos

Erica Crawford

Yes, than face.

Dr. Ran Stark

because the face is hidden and that is one of our hardest things to do on faces cuz in a high-level boutique practice like I have at Stark MD Plastic Surgery, you know, that's a challenge for us to put patients' faces in. We're always glad to show patients the faces in the office cuz the patients have given us, you know, the right to do that, but not on social media, and not on TikTok, not on even our website.

But, you know, I think there is something, you must specialize in something and if that's what you want to be known for, then I agree with you, you know. And, you know, we brought in another plastic surgeon into the group and she specializes, you know, both in face and breast, but she really wants to, you know, focus on her face. She does a wonderful facelift and we're going to focus the practice, you know, mostly for her for face and for me breast and body, but we will meet a little bit at the breast and the face, you know, cuz I still would like to do faces, but

Erica Crawford

Yeah, and I love that you said that and the truth is, I've seen your facelift. You do a great facelift.

Dr. Ran Stark

Thank you.

Erica Crawford

But, I

Dr. Ran Stark

secret.

Erica Crawford

It's a secret. It's a secret.

Dr. Ran Stark

one realizes that.

Erica Crawford

But, I appreciate you saying that because I do think ultimately that is the move as not just a plastic surgeon, but as a business owner.

Dr. Ran Stark

Right.

Erica Crawford

You mean your second surgeon that you bring in, if you are predominantly breast and body, it's a very smart move to bring in somebody who is predominantly face.

Dr. Ran Stark

I think it's hard for a prac-, you know, for a practice to only take, shift focus.

Erica Crawford

Right.

Dr. Ran Stark

But, we've always talking about this and I think we've been talking about it for the last three to five years since, you know, we've talked and I think, uh, it's not, you know, it's not the wrong thing to do in a practice.

Erica Crawford

You know, we've, you know, worked for you, with you for a long time, but an example is we've worked with Dr. Mike Nayak for a very long time, right? Obviously, he's a facial plastic surgeon, incredible facelifts, but he brought in a plastic surgeon, breast and body focus, which is a huge, you know, huge boost in type of patient you can ever really service before.

Dr. Ran Stark

Yeah. Don't you think it's going to cause a little bit of, you know, these facial plastic surgeons are hiring plastic surgeons, the plastic surgeons are hiring facial plastic surgeons. We're all kind of, you know, crossing fields. Even the dermato-, you know, it's like, why aren't people just staying in their lanes and respecting the other practice? Do you know what I mean? It's starting to start a little bit of, uh, you know, hey, you know, I'm going to be a plastic surgeon now cuz I'm just going to hire a plastic surgeon into my office.

Erica Crawford

Sure. I hear what you're saying.

Dr. Ran Stark

There's a lot.

Erica Crawford

I think specifically for facial plastic surgeons, ENTs, right? Did facial plastic surgery fellowship or the whole nine yards, right? And for plastic surgeons, I think that the merger is beautiful. Now, other, I would argue, and there's this word core that goes around. I would argue that the facial plastics are in that definition of core. But, if we're talking about other type of doctors doing surgery, I just, I don't want anything to do with that. You know what I mean? That's

Dr. Ran Stark

That's a big problem, you know, that people should talk about. You know, I recently heard of a dermatologist doing brow lifts and a facelift.

Erica Crawford

Yeah. Sure, I have.

Dr. Ran Stark

know, he's pretty well known, apparently. And, uh, one of my colleagues told me that they lost a patient to him.

Erica Crawford

I believe it.

Dr. Ran Stark

And, why would you go to someone who's not an expert? You know, at the end of the day it's education, knowing that, you know, the surgeon you pick does good work, safe work, you know, and gets you home safely with your family, you know, because without any complications, cuz we want surgery to have, you know, in the community a good name, not to be scary, to be natural, and, you know, people to enjoy it. You know, this is, uh, you know, this is not elect-, this is elective surgery. This is not emergent surgery, you know, so I think also people need to stay in their lane. So, absolutely.

Erica Crawford

So, I think that anything that's the amount of training it takes to be a plastic surgeon and even a facial plastic surgeon is pretty extensive.

Dr. Ran Stark

Yes.

Erica Crawford

Right? It just, that is not the same for an ER doctor, a dermatologist. I'm just sorry that's not, they're not trained to do surgery.

Dr. Ran Stark

Average, you know how long it takes to become a plastic surgeon?

Erica Crawford

12 years?

Dr. Ran Stark

I mean it could either be, you know, you want to include med school, that's 4 years. You know, either you go to a specific plastic surgery residency, which is 6 years, so that's 10 years, or if you do 4 years plus 5 years, that's 9 years plus another 3 years, that's 12 years. You know, so anywhere from, you know, 10 to 12 years. Plus we do another aesthetic fellowship.

Erica Crawford

say I feel like the fellowships everybody's on that 12 plus.

Dr. Ran Stark

Right, so we're all like around 12, 13 years of training. You know, so patients need to know when you go to a board-certified plastic surgeon by the American Board of Plastic Surgery, this is someone who's been vetted, they've done all the rigors they had to do, and you know, you're going to office and you should feel good about it, you know, that you're in good hands, you know, because our board, you know, we constantly look at these things, we make sure that everyone stays up to date and they're ethical and they're doing good work. And if there was a problem, someone would step in.

Erica Crawford

Absolutely, and I will say that is a plus of AI. AI always, always, always in almost any response you get mentions board certification.

Dr. Ran Stark

That's good.

Erica Crawford

might be specializing you, which you know, you can take it or leave it, just a fact, right? But they are absolutely mentioning board certifications. And it will actually go out of its way to mention that somebody is not a board-certified plastic surgeon.

Dr. Ran Stark

great.

Erica Crawford

do think that that is a plus and I think that there's going to be a bring a lot more awareness about it because the way that AI is crawling different things, it absolutely crawls the board certification websites. So if you have a double board certification or triple board certification, it's also going to say that.

Dr. Ran Stark

Right.

Erica Crawford

Right, so

Dr. Ran Stark

What about knowing what boards are officially, you know, there's some boards that are not recognized by the American Board of Medical Specialties.

Erica Crawford

Abs-, from my experience, for my own searches and checking and facing with clients at work, it absolutely has the correct boards in there. Meaning it is actually pretty accurate. It's not like, "Oh, it's board certified by the American Association of Cosmetic Doctors." It's not saying that. It's not saying that. It is saying, I have seen it go like, "Oh, okay, this person is, you know, a dermatologist." And it specifically will say it.

So, I think that's a plus of AI is that I think being board certified is going to be stressed even more and more as time goes. Um, but I think the specialization is just, it's just a fact, and I think you did it right. Like I said, you do a beautiful facelift, but I think by bringing on Dr. Campbell, you have both tackled

Dr. Ran Stark

No, we're excited about that, you know. She brings a very elegant touch, you know, great results, natural. You know, I think it's exactly what patients want in the Philadelphia and entire country. I mean, she's got, she has patients from all over, just like I've started, I mean, just in the past week, I operated on someone from New Orleans, uh, Denver, and believe it or not, Chicago. You know, that's pretty impressive, you know, that

Erica Crawford

I believe it. I mean,

Dr. Ran Stark

It's not just a, you know, local market anymore. It's the whole country.

Erica Crawford

I mean, I told one of my staff with, you know, any person she wants where she could get her mommy makeover, and she flew from Florida to Philly to you.

Dr. Ran Stark

I know. And she's, uh, around here. She looks amazing.

Erica Crawford

looks amazing.

Dr. Ran Stark

And she runs like marathons.

Erica Crawford

I know. She's doing fantastic, and we both know that after I have my second child, I am coming to you.

Dr. Ran Stark

have that on video now.

Erica Crawford

do. It's okay. It's okay. I'll tell the whole world.

Dr. Ran Stark

The whole world's going to know about it.

Erica Crawford

Because you know what? I know you're going to give me a good belly button, and I've been in this industry long enough to see a good tummy tuck belly button. And don't get me wrong, I have plenty of great clients that they do tummy tucks. We work together for quite some time, pretty much since the beginning here. So, but no, you do great, great, great tummy tucks. You have really great, great belly buttons. Hard to see, unfortunately, in a tummy tuck. Let's just call it spades and

Dr. Ran Stark

It's, yeah, it's the last thing we do in the tummy tuck. So, everyone's already tired and I was, you know, I always tell my room, like, relax. I got, you know, still work to do.

Erica Crawford

Yeah. Speaking of which, just, uh, you know, I know we're kind of keeping these things short, but I just, you've done so well in such a short amount of time. It's crazy. You're on your second provider. How long has your practice been open now? It's not that long.

Dr. Ran Stark

official practice since 2019. So, 7 years.

Erica Crawford

7 years.

Dr. Ran Stark

Um, yeah, now, you know, we opened a surgery center the past year. Uh, we have four nurse injectors, you know, three aestheticians, and you know, we're just looking forward for the future and keep growing.

Erica Crawford

Yeah.

Dr. Ran Stark

I mean, you know, I even spoke to Dr. Campbell, it's not the last

Erica Crawford

No.

Dr. Ran Stark

surgeon I'm bringing on, you know, and uh, you know, we're looking forward.

Erica Crawford

Well, that is very impressive. It's a very impressive level of growth and

Dr. Ran Stark

has helped as well.

Erica Crawford

I like to think just a little bit, a little bit. But it's good and you're, you're expensive practice, too, which is something I prefer my clients to be.

Dr. Ran Stark

love talking about prices.

Erica Crawford

I always love talking about prices. I don't like cheap prices. It's, uh,

Dr. Ran Stark

I mean, cheap is not, you know, always the best, right? I mean,

Erica Crawford

It's

Dr. Ran Stark

you want a Bentley, you don't go buy a Ford, right?

Erica Crawford

Correct. And I would say this is a luxury area, right?

Dr. Ran Stark

Right.

Erica Crawford

Aesthetics is a luxury service, and I grant that's not entirely true. Somebody will save up for a breast aug, somebody will save up for a rhinoplasty, and that does happen.

Dr. Ran Stark

Well, it's always interesting cuz you know, you go to, you know, a less expensive place, you don't get a good breast aug. You know, it might look good, but there's no longevity to it. And then they'll come in the practice and want a revision.

Erica Crawford

Yeah.

Dr. Ran Stark

And then

Erica Crawford

a lot more expensive.

Dr. Ran Stark

Which is a lot more expensive, and then they don't understand. And then, you know, you start having these talks, but it's the same thing. So, then they try to go to a less expensive place, and now they come in with a revision, you know, which is not good, with more issues,

Erica Crawford

Correct.

Dr. Ran Stark

and it's, you know, I wish patients, you know, one of the things we have to do is educate.

Erica Crawford

Yes.

Dr. Ran Stark

And patients really need to understand that.

Erica Crawford

It's so true and people don't always realize but sometimes you see a person you're like, "Ooh, their work doesn't look good, right?"

Dr. Ran Stark

Yeah.

Erica Crawford

And sometimes it's just bad work, bad surgeon or maybe they gave bad directions. Sometimes it's not about the surgeon, sometimes they want it to look that way and you got to let that just roll.

Dr. Ran Stark

you know,

Erica Crawford

But

Dr. Ran Stark

just because you can doesn't mean you should. And then as a surgeon you should just say no.

Erica Crawford

I know.

Dr. Ran Stark

It's something that I've, you know, some of our mentors have taught us but you know, just in the past year or two, you know, I've now said no to patients because I want the results to look good and if you're not going to agree on it,

Erica Crawford

Yeah.

Dr. Ran Stark

then, you know, it's not always the right thing. And we're not meant to be a match.

Erica Crawford

Exactly. But I would say that also some of the quote unquote bad work that you've seen is actually something that has had to be revised so many times because there's a certain point when you run out of fat, you run out of tissue, you run out of skin and you are working with it the best you can. But if somebody's coming to you and you're their third revision because they went cheap the first two times, you're going to do the best you can but it's, it's

Dr. Ran Stark

Yeah.

Erica Crawford

you're in a tough situation

Dr. Ran Stark

Right.

Erica Crawford

and you've seen that. You've seen somebody on their third or fourth facelift. You've seen and it does, there's a point when it goes, "Okay."

Dr. Ran Stark

Oh, yeah.

Erica Crawford

Sometimes it's fine if they did it right from the beginning but sometimes it's not fine so it really goes into, you, it's worth spending the money on it. But also most patients at this point, there's so much education around it that it is

Dr. Ran Stark

Well, AI is helping that, right?

Erica Crawford

AI is helping. Like I said, there's pros and there's cons, right? But their pro is having the education that people understand they need to spend money for good plastic surgery so there's no reason to have low prices, um, even if, you know, block cosmetic ER doctor down the street

Dr. Ran Stark

I know.

Erica Crawford

is doing a cheaper facelift than you.

Dr. Ran Stark

Happens all the time.

Erica Crawford

It happens, doesn't matter.

Dr. Ran Stark

Yes. So.

Erica Crawford

Dr. Stark, it's been great having you on. It's always a pleasure, uh, and yeah, we have a nice few days to hang out here at The Aesthetic Meeting.

Dr. Ran Stark

going to be great. There's so much good stuff here so

Erica Crawford

Yeah.

Dr. Ran Stark

Let's go.

Erica Crawford

All right.